Question Multiple weapon specializations

Vahx

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#1
Is there a way to have multiple weapon specializations? I'd like to give my army heroes all gun specializations and some of the stronger heroes all 3 weapon specs, but It will only show and register the first weapon spec in the list.

I would still like to normal limitations to be in place for non hero characters, so tinkering in the restriction section of the 3 melee expertise is not a full solution (i believe)

-edit-

I have tried adding 2 melee masteries to a trait and assigning said trait to a character but still only the first mastery is selected.
 
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QMJS

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#2
The first thing to consider here is that there is a limit to how many traits a character can have. Subtraits are included. Adding too many traits can cause others to not be applied, and that can mess up a lot of other game systems.

Some examples: A character who doesn't have an archetype trait, normally assigned as a subtrait of the personality. When missing, their mood can never improve, but can get worse.

A character who doesn't have a valid moodtype will never heal or recover from illness.

A character with too many traits may loose the ability to function with their skill, even if it displays (such as medicine), loose the ability to gain experience in a skill, cause scenes or missions to fail, and many other similar things. This is because temporary traits won't be applied.

Part of the difficulty is that each character has many traits not directly assigned through the characters.xml, such as the trait.gameplay, trait.wound, trait.fatigue, trait.status, trait.behavior, trait.community, and similar things. A character will have many traits that are not visible or directly assigned by their character definition.

So... be cautious when adding traits.

The second consideration is that if you end up making any particular character too powerful, they eventually become boring to use, because they have no weaknesses, require no decisions, and so on, particularly if you assign them the skills at high levels to start so they don't even need to gain experience and improve.

To do it:
1. Removing the restrictions for all character doesn't make any difference, and would be the easiest approach. As long as you aren't choosing multiple specializations for them, they can still be played as having only one. (And if you are making the heroes that powerful, you are unlikely to be using the regular characters.)

2. However, the second easiest includes removing the restrictions, and then adding a hero requirement to them. You would leave one that doesn't have the requirement, and that is all that would be available to the regular characters.

3. You could also simply combine the specializations effects and add them to one specific specialization, leaving the others untouched and selectable for regular characters, but the combined one would effectively be like having all of the specializations selected.

4. The most effective would be to create a new specialization that include the effects of the others combined, and restricting it with with a hero requirement.
 

Vahx

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#4
@QMJS thankx for the warning about the traits.
Ill give a combo specialisation a try on my next tinkering session.

I dont plan on making my heroes supermen but i always found it annoying that the militairy characters couldnt operate more then 1 gun properly.
I also plan to make the game harder in different ways but for now i am still learning the files and their structure.
 

QMJS

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#5
@QMJS thankx for the warning about the traits.
Ill give a combo specialisation a try on my next tinkering session.

I dont plan on making my heroes supermen but i always found it annoying that the militairy characters couldnt operate more then 1 gun properly.
I also plan to make the game harder in different ways but for now i am still learning the files and their structure.
Yeah, just something to keep in mind. It is easy to go overboard when you start changing, from the pure joy of being able to.

There's a lot to learn. The systems depth on SOD1 is like 30x that of SOD2.
 

Vahx

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#6
Would you happen to know where these effects are defined?

In characters.xml under traitgroup - gameplay there is only this
1541360055046.png

And in expertise.xml under specialization where the 3 groups are defined, i don't really see a value or effect being declared
 

QMJS

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#7
Some of the effects are handled in the exe, so they are out of reach directly. They are handled in the program statemachines. This mainly affects the melee skills, so the only parts that are available to change are the special abilities, not the basic combat numbers.

The other bonuses are handled in expertise.xml, and it is a little complicated when you first look at it.
For guns:
Under <gun expertises>, each has a series of bonus types listed. Looking at the first, "pistol basic", you will see three levels of movespeedlevel, seven levels of ratelevel, and so on. These are the bonuses for how the weapon improve. (Each replaces the previous one, so they are not cumulative.) Different weapon types have different values, and different number of bonus steps. Essentially, the first few bonuses come from the shooting skill, and then the next few come from the mastery/specialization.

In the same file, higher up, under the Expertises, you'll find <Expertise BonusXP="Character.XPBonus.GunBasic" ExpertiseId="GunBasic" Icon="" IconId="">. At the end of each level (Tier), you'll see an effects section like this:
<Effects>
<EffectGunRecoil GunExpertiseId="Pistol Basic" />
<EffectGunRecoil GunExpertiseId="Revolver Basic" />
<EffectGunRecoil GunExpertiseId="Rifle Basic" />
<EffectGunRecoil GunExpertiseId="Assault Basic" />
<EffectGunRecoil GunExpertiseId="SMG Basic" />
<EffectGunRecoil GunExpertiseId="Shotgun Basic" />
</Effects>
That means, for the first level of basic gun skill, you get the first recoil bonus listed for those weapon types. The second time they are listed, the second bonus is used, and that is how they improve.

Farther down under the <Specializations>, "Weapon Specialization", you find the mastery level (specialized with a particular weapon.) After selection, as these improve, they add additional bonuses from the <gun expertises>.

So, to make one gun mastery equivalent to the others, under the Specializations only, copy the bonus types for each rank of the other specializations to the one you want to have everything.
 

Vahx

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#8
Some of the effects are handled in the exe, so they are out of reach directly. They are handled in the program statemachines. This mainly affects the melee skills, so the only parts that are available to change are the special abilities, not the basic combat numbers.
Thats what I feared, but your explanation with the guns made it a lot clearer. I was attempting to merge melee weapon stats first but they have nothing listed under "Effects", so I was missing the what I was looking for.
I guess I'll have to live with separate melee specializations and try to build a more powerful gun mastery.

Thankx for your help and time though.
 

QMJS

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#9
You may be able to assign the various melee masteries. They wouldn't show up without breaking them out into different specializations. Only one option in each specialization category is available to choose directly, and the special moves probably would take the first available (or maybe the last assigned... you'd have to test.) That would still add a number of traits, so it could cause issues, but it would be a much smaller number than the guns, and would be easier to test.
 
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