Bring back that loving feeling..

SwissArmyKnife

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#81
Dru's statements of "in my opinion, if it's not debuggable, it's not shippable" and "the initial mission system that I wrote when we switched to Unreal I wrote in, I dunno, a couple of weeks tops, and the core of that system is the same." made me cringe a little bit because right after he states, it's not debuggable, Geoff talks about how they have no debug tools for missions. They also lament about how difficult it is to even add missions to the game.


This makes me think that while a story would be great to add in, they are incapable (due to time/efficiency) of doing much with the story at this point because the originating tools and self-induced complexity of their work has made it nigh impossible without rewriting everything again.
 

SailorWolf

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#82
Dru's statements of "in my opinion, if it's not debuggable, it's not shippable" and "the initial mission system that I wrote when we switched to Unreal I wrote in, I dunno, a couple of weeks tops, and the core of that system is the same." made me cringe a little bit because right after he states, it's not debuggable, Geoff talks about how they have no debug tools for missions. They also lament about how difficult it is to even add missions to the game.


This makes me think that while a story would be great to add in, they are incapable (due to time/efficiency) of doing much with the story at this point because the originating tools and self-induced complexity of their work has made it nigh impossible without rewriting everything again.

So they tied their own hands by just reworking the old tools instead making new ones for the new engine?
 
Joined
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#83
Dru's statements of "in my opinion, if it's not debuggable, it's not shippable" and "the initial mission system that I wrote when we switched to Unreal I wrote in, I dunno, a couple of weeks tops, and the core of that system is the same." made me cringe a little bit because right after he states, it's not debuggable, Geoff talks about how they have no debug tools for missions. They also lament about how difficult it is to even add missions to the game.


This makes me think that while a story would be great to add in, they are incapable (due to time/efficiency) of doing much with the story at this point because the originating tools and self-induced complexity of their work has made it nigh impossible without rewriting everything again.
Oh, for fuck's sake.....THEY SABOTAGED THEIR OWN GAME! What the hell is this? It's like they wanted to make damn sure it was as difficult as possible to mod and forgot that they themselves might need to make changes later.

My hopes for the future of UL and the SoD series as a whole have just been flushed.
 

QMJS

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#84
Dru's statements of "in my opinion, if it's not debuggable, it's not shippable" and "the initial mission system that I wrote when we switched to Unreal I wrote in, I dunno, a couple of weeks tops, and the core of that system is the same." made me cringe a little bit because right after he states, it's not debuggable, Geoff talks about how they have no debug tools for missions. They also lament about how difficult it is to even add missions to the game.

This makes me think that while a story would be great to add in, they are incapable (due to time/efficiency) of doing much with the story at this point because the originating tools and self-induced complexity of their work has made it nigh impossible without rewriting everything again.
Yeah, I really hate it when a job isn't push-button easy, and you actually have to do some work at work.



How to build game-agnostic plugins to accomplish what they need to do:

Interestingly, this video is specifically about 4.13, the release version used by SOD2. It explains how to make a finite statemachine module, which they should already know the basics having used them extensively in the first game.

How to debug UE4 using Visual Studio: "You can either use "Attach to Process" in Visual Studio (CTRL + ALT + P) and select your process that way. Or, if you are building through source, just launch everything from Visual Studio (F5) - just make sure you pass in your UPROJECT file through the parameters (you can use the Unreal Visual Studio extension to help with that) so it gets loaded automatically. "(This will debug just that module, so mission debugging is simply, attach the debugger to the mission uasset they are using.)

Problems solved. Now they can fix the game.
 
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#85
My gut response is they have really inefficent code, probably down to the game being intially develpoed in a different engine and I suspect transfered over en-mass without being properly re-written.
Well at least my speculation above from another thread is pretty much confirmed...as programmers they really screwed the pooch on this one
 

Kizig

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#86
Dru's statements of "in my opinion, if it's not debuggable, it's not shippable" and "the initial mission system that I wrote when we switched to Unreal I wrote in, I dunno, a couple of weeks tops, and the core of that system is the same." made me cringe a little bit because right after he states, it's not debuggable, Geoff talks about how they have no debug tools for missions. They also lament about how difficult it is to even add missions to the game.
I don't understand what this means. Not being able to debug, that sounds like once a bug is introduced it never ever can be fixed? Is this once it's distributed or something?
 

SwissArmyKnife

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#87
I don't understand what this means. Not being able to debug, that sounds like once a bug is introduced it never ever can be fixed? Is this once it's distributed or something?
Geoff expanded on it a little bit. Basically, he would create a mission and it would never spawn BUT there were no errors or logs for him to look at to see why it would never spawn. He would always have to go see Dru or another programmer about it.

As an example, a debugger might say the following if a mission fails because there's no enclave member available for it:
IF Enclave Member does not exist, send ALERT No enclave member exists for this mission.

But the current tool just fails immediately with no log or error.
 

odf14

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#88
Oh, for fuck's sake.....THEY SABOTAGED THEIR OWN GAME! What the hell is this? It's like they wanted to make damn sure it was as difficult as possible to mod and forgot that they themselves might need to make changes later.

My hopes for the future of UL and the SoD series as a whole have just been flushed.
So . . . why is it we're so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt again?
 

Zechs

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#89
Where does one place the blame? Was it UL who insisted on porting their work in Stingray (or whatever it was prior) to UE? Or was it a Microsoft thing to cut production costs by using an existing engine, not like CryEngine was original to UL but at least it just needed tweaking...
 

chikawowwow

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#90
Where does one place the blame? Was it UL who insisted on porting their work in Stingray (or whatever it was prior) to UE? Or was it a Microsoft thing to cut production costs by using an existing engine, not like CryEngine was original to UL but at least it just needed tweaking...
CryEngine had a pay what you want scheme and has only recently (March 2018) adopted a 5% royalty fee. Unreal Engine has been 5% royalty since 2015, so I doubt the decision was made because of costs.
CryEngine had a bit of a rep for being unwieldy because of bad design (in the sense of other people using it, not engineering wise) so that is probably why they steered away from it. AFAIK it is much better now.

Where does one place the blame? With UL. If it really was a case of MS putting endless demands on them and making them release a bad game, then why the hell did the studio sign over? I don't doubt MS put demands on them to some degree but the quality of the game is on UL, either because of poor leadership or poor designers, as harsh as it is. The litmus test is this: who actually made the 1776 zombies? The answer to that is the reason why this game isn't the State Of Decay we love.
 

SwissArmyKnife

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#91
Where does one place the blame? Was it UL who insisted on porting their work in Stingray (or whatever it was prior) to UE? Or was it a Microsoft thing to cut production costs by using an existing engine, not like CryEngine was original to UL but at least it just needed tweaking...
I think the port from AutoDesk Stingray to UE was driven far more by the fact that the Stingray engine shuttered in January 2018 and it's closure was announced to developers at the beginning of Q2 2017.

As for why they changed from CryEngine, it's because State of Decay was written on 3.3.9 and was heavily customized. They had loosely stated at one point in the modding forums that the customization was so heavy that they wouldn't be able to update to newer versions of CryEngine without rewriting whole sections of the game.
 
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#93
They had loosely stated at one point in the modding forums that the customization was so heavy that they wouldn't be able to update to newer versions of CryEngine without rewriting whole sections of the game.
Alas porting it over to a new engine and badly re-writing the code is arguably worse; and you can tell theyve ported things over directly just by the houses etc
 
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#94
So . . . why is it we're so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt again?
I remember the bullshit and hell I had to go through for 8 weeks to try organize the UEPO. Remember Nicole trying to get me the game. That failing.

The 16 hours spent on the phone with Ms store support in Hong Kong, America and South Africa.

The countless grey hair trying to just get the game to in the end. Be so hurt by how far from State of Decay was from State of Decay it might as well have been Far Cry 2 coming out after Far Cry 1.
 
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